Jacques Delisle : Murder and The Judge – the fifth estate

Jacques Delisle : Murder and The Judge – the fifth estate

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(♪♪)>>Mark: He was one of the country’s most respected judges who went from the bench to behind bars. The first judge in Canada ever to be convicted of murder. (♪♪)>>Mark: Sentenced to life in prison for killing his wife.>>When we charged him, yes, he was guilty. That’s it.>>Mark: Now, from behind the walls of a maximum-security prison, Jacques Delisle for the first time –>>Mark: Mark Kelly.>>How do you do.>>Mark: — tells his story about what happened on the day his wife died.>>Mark: You lied to the police. You didn’t tell the truth to your family for a long time, so why should we believe you today?>>Because I am telling the truth today. It’s as simple as that.>>Mark: A joint CBC-Radio-Canada investigation raises disturbing questions about some of the key forensic evidence used to convict him.>>Mark: You have doubts.>>Yes, I do. There’s reasonable doubt here.>>Mark: I’m Mark Kelley, and this is the Fifth Estate. (♪♪)>>Mark: November 2009, a quiet Thursday morning in Quebec city, when a 9-1-1 call came in… (telephone ringing)>>Mark: The voice of the caller shook. (speaking French)>>Mark: He asked, what do I do? He told the operator he didn’t know what happened. (speaking French) (Breathing heavily)>>Mark: The operator asked why would his wife take her own life? (speaking French) (sirens)>>Mark: When the ambulance team arrived, the woman is found lying on a sofa, a bullet wound to her head. When the paramedics attempted to examine the victim, the man told them it was too late, saying it was her wish to die. The victim was a 71-year-old woman named Nicole Rainville. And the distraught man who called 9-1-1? None other than Jacques Delisle, one the most respected judges in the country. It was an unlikely ending to a marriage that had lasted almost 50 years and the beginning of Delisle’s fall from grace. (♪♪)>>Mark: Jacques Delisle was an ambitious law student when he met Nicole Rainville. They married in 1960. Delisle was a dashing figure and a rising star who went from lawyer to Quebec superior court judge and then to the prestigious Quebec Court of Appeal. He would count among his friends powerful and influential figures like Pierre Michaud, the former Chief Justice of Quebec.>>He was a fantastic colleague. I mean, he was such a devoted judge. He was a real judge. He was a great judge actually. He was so determined to render justice in the right way.>>Mark: But for lawyers who had to plead their case before Delisle, it was a different story. They described him as being arrogant and aloof. Jacques Larochelle is one of Quebec’s top defence lawyers. He said it was intimidating to be in Delisle’s courtroom.>>He did not let pass any mistake. That’s mainly for what he was known. And if you pleaded before him and committed a mistake, uh, even slight — a slight one — you would stand corrected immediately.>>Mark: But the life of the star judge and his loving wife changed dramatically on her 69th birthday. Nicole Rainville suffered a stroke, leaving her partially paralyzed, forever changed.>>There were no more light in her eyes, no more.>>Mark: Her daughter Elene says her mother sunk into depression.>>She couldn’t do anything. Cook, read, play bridge and take care of the grandchildren, drive, walk, speak. She was very, very active, then suddenly she couldn’t do anything.>>Mark: She was no longer the person you remembered?>>No.>>No.>>Mark: 2 years after her stroke, Nicole broke her hip. Delisle then retired from the court in order to care of her growing needs.>>You know, everybody was raving about the way he was so devoted to her. You know, the most revealing fact is that he adored his job at the appeal court, and he retired one year before the compulsory year. For what? For taking care of her full-time.>>Mark: Nicole hated being a burden and would make comments about ending her own life. Dark and disturbing for her daughter Elene, son Jean, and his wife Dominique. Elene remembers that fateful day when her father called to break the news Nicole was dead.>>I asked him did she kill herself, and he said yes.>>Mark: The first thing you thought was, did she kill herself?>>Yes, yes. (siren)>>Mark: At first, it certainly looked like suicide. But police began to take a closer look at the case. One of the investigators noticed a black spot on the palm of Nicole’s left hand. Was she trying to shield herself when she was shot? With that suspicion, the investigation took a remarkable turn. Police began to secretly follow the retired judge who had been a pillar of justice in the province. That’s when they discovered Delisle was leading a double life. He’d been in a relationship with his former secretary for years. Bit by bit, police built a case against Delisle. Charles Levasseur, then a crown attorney, remembers being asked to take the case and was stunned to learn the name of the prime suspect.>>My answer was, Jacques Delisle, the judge? They say yeah. And I thought about it for maybe half a second and I said yes.>>Mark: When you saw the evidence, what stood out for you as you looked at the cold hard facts of this case?>>It was 1st degree murder.>>Mark: As the police quietly pursued the case, Delisle had no idea he was even under investigation. It had been 7 months since the death of his wife so he was ready to move on with his life. So he asked his longtime lover if she would leave her husband and move in with him. But it never happened. Days later, June, 2010, the former judge was arrested and charged with murder.>>A Quebec judge has been charged with first degree murder in the death of his wife. The most serious charge ever levelled against a Canadian Judge. (speaking French).>>Mark: It was a shocking development for his friends.>>I couldn’t believe it. I mean, I thought it was ridiculous. I was stunned.>>Mark: And his family.>>We did not understand what was going on.>>It was a shock, completely.>>Mark: The trial in Quebec City began in May 2012. From the beginning it was a spectacle. People would line up every morning hoping for a seat in the courtroom, hoping to learn more sordid details about the secret life of the once untouchable Delisle. The public was now judging the judge.>>It was huge. It was huge. It was on national media. International media, too. It was everywhere!>>Mark: A key area of contention was that black smudge on the victim’s left hand. It was gunshot residue. But how did it get there? The defence said it came from the gun Nicole Rainville was holding as she pulled the trigger. The Crown said she got the burn Mark as she tried to defend herself from her husband as he pointed the gun at her head.>>Mark: Why in the world would this man have shot and killed his wife?>>Well, the Crown theory was this: Mrs. Delisle was sick. She was disabled. She was paralyzed from one side of her body. And Mr. Delisle was in good health. He was good looking. There was another woman involved. He killed her in order to start a new life.>>Mark: And as the trial proceeded, the Crown focussed on the mistress and the money. They claimed if ever Delisle divorced his wife, he’d lose more than $1 million in a settlement. His own family didn’t believe a word of it. They were furious at how Delisle was being portrayed in the media as a murderer. His daughter-in-law Dominique Marceau attended the trial every day.>>I just felt that they wanted to portray him like a monster. Like nobody wanted to talk about the dynamic between Mr. And Mrs. Delisle. They just wanted to portray a monster. The fact that he loved another woman, the fact that he had money, the fact that all those things became important and not the facts. I didn’t understand.>>Mark: For his defence, Delisle hired Jacques Larochelle, the lawyer who’d faced him many times as a judge. Larochelle was confident he would win. The facts, he said, were on his side.>>I quickly realized there was a huge gap in the ballistics evidence. I was sure that it was suicide, because the ballistics proved it beyond a doubt. This is what I believed from the beginning.>>Mark: The trial had gone on for 6 weeks. 29 witnesses had testified., but many observers felt the case would turn on the testimony of the last witness, the one everyone wanted to hear from: Jacques Delisle. But on the day he was scheduled to take the stand, a bombshell. Delisle had decided instead to stay silent. The former prosecutor was stunned.>>Mark: What do you think the impact was of his decision not to testify in his own defence?>>The impact I think was huge. It was very important. Very, very, very important. Because everyone was asking — The Crown evidence raised a lot of questions, and everyone was hoping that Mr. Delisle would take the stand to answer and to say, look, I didn’t kill Nicole.>>Mark: Delisle’s own lawyer saw his case take a major body blow.>>I was convinced it would be very dramatic. It would influence the jury. I was convinced he would be believed because he told the truth. I felt that I had lost an important argument, an important part of my defense. A very important part.>>Mark: It took the jury just 15 hours of deliberations before they returned with a verdict. They found Delisle guilty of premeditated murder. The 77-year-old former judge was automatically sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 25 years. His family left the courtroom stunned. His lawyer refused to answer any questions about why his client didn’t testify.>>Mark: When we come back. From behind the walls of a maximum-security prison –>>Mark: Mark Kelly.>>Mark: Jacques Delisle finally breaks his silence on his case…and his conviction.>>There are innocent persons in prisons. You have one in front of you. (♪♪)>>Mark: Ste Anne des Plaines Penitentiary is a short drive from downtown Montreal, but for the inmates here, it may as well be a world away. It’s a maximum-security facility, home to some of Canada’s most notorious killers and one unlikely inmate, Jacques Delisle, the only judge in the country ever convicted of first degree murder. For the last 3 years, he’s been here serving a life sentence for killing his wife, far from the courtrooms where, as a respected judge, his word ruled. Now his every move, his every phone conversation or meeting, is strictly scrutinized. Once an arbiter of the justice system, he’s now a prisoner of that same system. The Fifth Estate and our colleagues at the Radio-Canada program ‘Enquete’ secured an interview with Delisle.>>Mark: Mark Kelley.>>How do you do?>>Mark: Very well. How are you? We met at the prison.>>Mark: Thank you very much. Why did you want to speak to us?>>Because it’s about time that people know the truth. It’s about time that I tell what really happened that morning.>>Mark: Once dashing and aristocratic, Delisle is now frail and gaunt, revealing his age and the reality of his life. He’s 79 and not eligible for parole for another 22 years.>>Mark: Do you feel relief in being able to tell your story?>>Yes, yes. And I hope that people will understand.>>Mark: Delisle wants people to understand the story of his relationship with his wife of 49 years, Nicole Rainville, and her downward spiral after a stroke and a badly broken hip.>>Objectively speaking, life wasn’t the same anymore. In my heart, she was still my love, but in our daily life, it wasn’t the same anymore.>>Mark: Why would she want to commit suicide?>>Nicole wasn’t the same person. I never saw, never saw, Nicole smile after her fall.>>Mark: In the course of an hour long conversation, Delisle would reveal a secret that he’s carried with him for years — and make a confession about what he did on the day his wife told him she wanted to die.>>We had a real conversation between Nicole and I. I tried my best to convince her not to do it. I told Nicole, I still love you, Nicole, and I am here to take care of you. I repeated that. I cried with her. I hug her. I kiss her. I did my best to convince her not to go further in her thinking, but she was convinced.>>Mark: Delisle had owned a handgun for decades, a gift from a friend. He’d kept it hidden away in their home, but his wife knew where it was.>>Mark: She asked you to get your gun?>>Yes. She said, Jacques, go and fetch the gun, load it for me, and give it to me, and leave me alone. Yes.>>Mark: Delisle says after a long conversation with his wife, he went into his study and retrieved his sterling 33 handgun. It was already loaded. He says he cocked the weapon and left it on the table beside her.>>Mark: Why did you do that?>>Why, because Nicole was miserable. Nicole wanted to end her life. Because I loved her, and I realized that she wasn’t happy anymore.>>Mark: When you left the gun on the table and you prepared to leave your home, what were your last words to her?>>I said, Nicole, please Nicole, think about what you just said. Think about what you want to do. Think, at least, Nicole, before doing anything. Think, think of your children. Think of me. We’re still, everyone…we’ll still love you. We’re with you. I pleaded with her.>>Mark: And what did she say to you?>>She said, Jacques, leave me alone. Leave me alone. Give me one hour. When she said, give me one hour, that gave me some sort of hope that some sort of hope.>>Mark: So, when you left your home, did you believe that she was going to pull the trigger?>>No. At least, I was hoping that Nicole wouldn’t do it. But I asked myself, am I doing the right thing?>>Mark: Around 9:30 that morning, Delisle says left to run errands, believing his wife would not use the gun. A security camera at a local deli recorded him buying two salads, one for Nicole and the other for their daughter Elene who was coming for lunch. Within the hour, he returned home.>>I opened up the door, and I saw Nicole on the couch with a lot of blood on her face. I rushed to her, uh … I rushed to her and I kneeled, and I wanted to put my hand on her chest, because there was too much blood on her face, and I said, Nicole, Nicole, what did you do, Nicole?>>Mark: And at that time there was — she was gone?>>Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. No doubt. Yes. (♪♪)>>After her burial, I almost every day went to pay a visit to the cemetery and often I asked Nicole, did I do the right thing? (weeps)>>Of course, it’s easy now, now that I’ve been convicted. It’s easy to say, I didn’t do the right thing, eh? You understand what I mean. It means, knowing that I would be convicted, I wouldn’t have done it.>>Mark: But, at the time, you thought it was the right thing?>>Well, at the time, I was answering Nicole’s request, and I think that I did the right thing.>>Mark: But he admits he didn’t do the right thing when police arrived on the scene. Delisle told them his wife got the gun on her own.>>Now I realized, of course, I realize today that I did a stupid thing, but it’s done. There isn’t anything I can do about it now.>>Mark: Why did you lie to the police?>>Because I didn’t want the family to know what really happened that morning. I didn’t want the family to know that I helped Nicole commit suicide.>>Mark: Even through his trial, he kept this secret as long as he could. But to beat his murder charge, Delisle knew he’d have to confess to the lesser crime of assisted suicide. First he had to let his family know what he’d done. He asked his lawyer Jacques Larochelle to speak to his children.>>When I told Elene that he had loaded, fetched, and cocked a gun, and given it to her — her mother, she was completely upset. She was — she was in a terrible state. She left the office almost crying, and it was worse with Dominique, his daughter-in-law. They were devastated. It was terrible for her. They had been lied to, the police had been lied to, he had remitted a — a loaded gun to their mother. They were — they were shocked.>>Mark: The night before Delisle was scheduled to testify, his daughter-in-law Dominique went to his home. On behalf of the family, she begged him not to testify. Begged him to keep his explosive secret to himself.>>I was concerned about the fact that our children, that everyone would learn the next Monday that he finally helped killing — not killing but help her or accept what she wanted, he agreed to what she wanted.>>Mark: But it was the truth?>>You know, when you go through things like this, you don’t really think about what you should do or what’s right to do. It was just the way we lived it day by day. It was a terrible — it’s a tragedy. It’s a family tragedy. And I think a family tragedy, you don’t really think what’s good or bad, you live it. I understand today that it was the truth and it should have been done, but at that moment I felt I needed to tell him that it would impact us.>>Mark: Faced with the pleadings of his family, Delisle made a pivotal decision.>>She insisted upon not telling things that will afflict anymore on the family. That’s the main reason — the only reason why I didn’t testify. Now, I realize it was a mistake, but it’s too late.>>Mark: As a former judge, do you think that was a smart legal decision to make?>>That was not a smart decision to make. That was a sentimental decision I made. I thought of my family first.>>Mark: You know, people will say, Moniseur Delisle, you lied to the police. You didn’t tell the truth to your family for a long time.>>I know where you’re going.>>Mark: So why should we believe you today?>>Because I am telling the truth today. It’s as simple as that.>>Mark: But you know that everyone in this prison says they’re innocent, too.>>There are innocent person in prisons. You have one in front of you.>>Mark: This is Delisle’s version of what happened on that fateful day. But what story does the evidence have to tell? When we come back, a team of forensic experts weighs in on the case against the judge.>>Mark: It was the Crown’s job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was a case of murder. You have doubts.>>Yes, I do. There’s reasonable doubt here. (♪♪)>>Mark: Jacques Delisle’s life sentence for murdering his wife sent shockwaves through legal circles across the country. He’s the first judge in Canadian history to ever be convicted of first degree murder. So it’s no surprise the case caught the eye of a lawyer in Toronto who’s made history himself. James Lockyer rights wrongs and changes lives. His high-profile work has helped exonerate more than 20 people wrongly convicted of serious crimes. (cheering)>>Mark: Some who spent decades falsely accused, like Stephen Truscott. The attorney who made his name taking on judges is now fighting for one. Jacques Delisle.>>So this is what I thought was the angle.>>Mark: With the help of his team at the Association in Defence of the Wrongfully Convicted, Lockyer poured over the trial testimonials, combed through the forensic evidence, and interviewed Delisle and his family.>>So it’s coming in like that.>>Yeah.>>Mark: I’m wondering why you want to take on this case?>>I try and take on cases where I think the people I’m helping are genuinely innocent. And I think Mr. Delisle is genuinely innocent.>>Mark: You’ve made a career out of proving judges wrong. How do you feel about defending one now?>>It really doesn’t bother me at all. You know, one of the things that I can say that to judges even now that you could be the next one. There are no potential exceptions to people who can be wrongfully convicted.>>Mark: Right or wrong, here’s the case that convicted Delisle… For the crown, their forensic case seemed as basic as connecting the dots. First, the trajectory of the bullet that killed Nicole Rainville. The Crown said it took a straight path from her temple through her skull. They would determine the shot was fired at an angle of 30 degrees, consistent with someone holding a gun to the front of her head. These images show the Crown’s team of experts demonstrating how they thought it happened. Then the next piece of the puzzle, the black smudge found on her left hand. The Crown argued she got the burn as she raised her hand to defend herself from her husband. The pieces of evidence seemed to fit locktight. However, the defence presented a completely different scenario. On the surface, the defence theory of how Rainville shot herself did seem farfetched. Their one expert said the right-handed woman, who was partially paralyzed on her right side, used her left hand to grip the pistol like this, upside-down, using her middle finger to pull the trigger. The Crown said this was unrealistic, and the jury agreed. But Lockyer says juries are often swayed by faulty science.>>He was convicted on what I would consider to be very poor forensic evidence, and that’s a common cause of wrongful convictions.>>Mark: Two dramatically different versions of the death of Nicole Rainville. So we took the evidence to our own independent forensic experts. Three different experts in three different cities. They spent days pouring over trial transcripts and photos of the evidence. None of them were consulted on this case before now. None of them discussed the evidence with each other. Which is — so this is the trigger finger? Dr. Peter Markesteyn is the former chief medical examiner of Manitoba, a forensic pathologist who’s worked on cases of the wrongfully convicted before. He was shocked when he read the Crown’s theory.>>There is zero forensic evidence to support that. This is the bullet. It’s flattened.>>Mark: Rather than start here with the bullet, Markesteyn starts here with the entry wound. An angled shot would’ve left burn marks on the victim’s skin and hair. But he says there are none. So he concludes the shot wasn’t fired at a 30 degree angle, more like a perpendicular or 90 degree angle, consistent with the suicide theory.>>There is no doubt from a scientific point of view that this was a perpendicular-held gun at the time of firing.>>Mark: That seems clear-cut.>>It is. Yes. But it may be technical to a jury. That’s the problem, right? Right.>>Mark: But if the gun were at a 90 degree angle pointed at her temple, how then did the bullet end up in the back of her skull? Easy, says Liam Hendrikse. He’s a ballistics and firearms specialist, recognized by the international criminal court in the Hague.>>This was a contact shot that struck hard bone. The bullet would have immediately started to fragment and deform upon the impact with the skull.>>Mark: He says the bullet deflected as it hit inside the victim’s skull, leaving a telltale trail of lead fragments.>>There was the x-ray evidence which indicated what is known as a lead snowstorm, and that’s the fragmentation of the projectile. The x-ray showed the lead snowstorm running roughly parallel across the head from point ‘a’ to point ‘b’ where they came to rest.>>Mark: He says it’s evident the bullet went from the left temple, ricocheted off the right side of the head, and ended up at the back of the head. Once again, consistent with the defence, contradicting the Crown.>>That’s at the back of the head –>>Mark: So why did the Crown experts interpret the evidence differently?>>Well there’s obviously always human error, and that can always play a role in any type of examination or examinations of this type in this type of complex case.>>Mark: That leaves one key piece of evidence. That telltale black powder burn on the victim’s hand. To learn more about that, we asked Dr. Michael Shkrum to unlock the secrets of the smudge.>>Mark: The powder on the hands and significance of that. That’s what I’m trying to understand. Can we take a look at that?>>Sure.>>Mark: Shkrum is an expert in forensic pathology who leads the autopsy team at the Health Sciences Centre in London, Ontario. He’s testified for the defence in other murder cases.>>Mark: What do you see there?>>Okay, so again we have this large area of soot or smoke that’s been expelled from the — with the bullet.>>Mark: This powerful post-mortem image is the key, he says, to understanding what really happened to Nicole Rainville. He said if she had put her hand up to defend herself from the gun, as the Crown said she did, the powder burns would have been on a different part of her palm. These burns, in this pattern, indicate she was likely holding the gun herself.>>Mark: This does appear to be consistent with a self-inflicted wound.>>It appears to be, yes.>>Mark: Well, that’s significant.>>Yes, it is.>>Mark: I mean, that’s the difference between guilt and innocence.>>that’s right.>>Mark: All of our experts agree, based on the entry wound to her skull, the bullet’s trajectory, and the soot pattern on her hand, the Crown’s forensic testimony, as presented at trial is dead wrong. ‘Cause it was the Crown’s job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was a case of murder, you have doubts.>>Yes, I do. There’s reasonable doubt here.>>Mark: Reasonable doubt about the guilt of a man who’s already spent 3 years of a life sentence behind bars for murder. So we presented the questions raised about the Crown’s forensic evidence to Charles Levasseur, the Crown attorney who originally took on the case.>>You cannot do evidence picking. I mean, you have to consider the whole story.>>Mark: Levasseur remains convinced Delisle pulled the trigger, because of the compelling motive, the mistress and the ailing wife.>>He didn’t want to have this, this burden, on his back at his retirement. He wanted to travel. So that’s my theory, and that’s what I think, and that’s what I still think.>>Mark: And that hasn’t changed?>>No absolutely not.>>Mark: And it’s not just Levasseur’s opinion. The Quebec Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court let Delisle’s conviction stand. Despite all those setbacks, Judge Delisle still has faith in the law.>>I’m confident in the justice system.>>Mark: When we come back, one last desperate attempt to prove his innocence. (♪♪)>>Mark: For inmates serving a life sentence at the Ste. Anne des Plaines Penitentiary, it’s hard to dream about the future. Their lives are now defined and confined by their past. Jacques Delisle has now spent 3 years here. Plenty of time to think about the biggest case the former judge ever faced: Being found guilty of murdering his wife Nicole Rainville.>>Mark: Were you going into that trial confident that you would be acquitted?>>Yes. No doubt I was going in confident, because I didn’t kill Nicole. I said, it’s impossible for 12 jurors to find me criminally responsible for an act that I did not commit.>>Mark: During the trial, his defence lawyer Jacques Larochelle was confident the jury would be swayed by the forensic evidence, too. Not the sordid details of Delisle’s private life.>>At the beginning, it was a normal case, and it was reported normally. And the more it went, and the more I felt an incredible hostility to him, and everybody told me, “You will lose this case, he’s certainly guilty.” Everybody had his opinion, and when I asked them, “What do you answer to this argument of the ballistics?î Oh, doesn’t care, ballistics it’s not a case of ballistics, he had a mistress, he had money, he was a judge.” So there was an amount of prejudice, of blind hate, that to me again today is completely impossible to explain.>>Mark: Delisle can’t explain it either. He feels the jury punished him for having an affair with his former secretary Johanne Plamondon.>>Mark: Do you think that they were swayed by the fact that you were having a relationship with Madame Plamondon?>>If it was one of their arguments, it’s stupid, because I’m not the first person to have an extramarital affair.>>Mark: That didn’t necessarily make you a murderer. That wasn’t a motive.>>No, that wasn’t a motive. I loved Nicole. I loved Madame Plamondon.>>Mark: Delisle’s legal options are now razor-thin. After the Quebec Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court refused to reopen his case, there is only one last hope. Convicted prisoners in Canada who’ve lost all their legal appeals are allowed by law to make a direct appeal to the federal justice minister, asking the government to reopen the case. But it’s a long shot. In the past 5 years, there have been 72 requests to the minister. Only 2 were granted. Back in Toronto, Delisle’s new defence lawyer, James Lockyer is confident he can do it. He’s convinced Ottawa to reopen several high profile wrongful conviction cases in the past, but not without a fight.>>These cases are never easy. You’re fighting against a presumption of guilt, of course. Because he’s been convicted by a jury and had his appeals dismissed, so you are fighting against a presumption of guilt.>>Mark: He hopes to fight that presumption of guilt by having an independent scientific lab review the forensic evidence. Coupled with Delisle’s stunning admission he helped his wife commit suicide, Lockyer thinks this new evidence should override a conviction he says was based on public anger and animosity.>>I understand there was a huge applause broke out when he was convicted. My own sense — and I’ve experienced this in other cases, is that as human beings we sometimes — we take delight in how the mighty have fallen. You’ve got to get the right people first. You’ve got to get someone who committed a crime before you do that, and I don’t think Mr. Delisle for a moment committed a crime. Not — at least not the crime of murder. He did commit some crimes, but not the crime of murder.>>Mark: Back inside the walls of the maximum-security penitentiary, all Delisle can do now is wait. Will the judicial system that he served for so long give him a last chance to prove his innocence? He’s no murderer, he says, but he confesses he is guilty of helping his wife die.>>Legally speaking, it’s a crime. But that didn’t cross my mind that morning. That morning, I was acting out of love of Nicole. I pleaded with her not to do so. I did the best I could to convince her. I told her that I loved her, that I was willing to spend the rest of my life — (chokes up) — taking care of her. That’s it. But, of course, objectively or legally speaking, it’s an offense. I won’t deny it. (♪♪)>>Mark: Every day, he relives that November morning 3 years ago. And the decisions that would end his wife’s life and condemn him to a life sentence behind bars.>>I did a stupid thing. I grant you that I did a stupid thing. But it’s easy after — it’s easy after to say that, eh. But you had to be me that morning. Me that morning was a guy who didn’t kill Nicole. Me that morning was a guy who was demolished by what he had seen.>>Mark: And you can’t change the past?>>No. No. Mm, mm.>>Mark: Now, we’ll see about the future. (♪♪)

100 thoughts on “Jacques Delisle : Murder and The Judge – the fifth estate

  • 守lower Post author

    It's a nonsense story that judge dracula is telling us because, if he was so sensible to plead his wife to rethink he would also be smart enough to know that if he handed her his own gun he would be implicated, especially being a judge himself. He killed her, Case closed, in spite of the interview with a vampire. I don't believe him for a second

  • Annie Moreau Post author

    He may be not guilty of killing his wife, but he's guilty of lying to the police and to having helped his wife to commit suicide! For a judge, it's not very smart!

  • Passive Aggressive Flamingo Post author

    Seems like the majority of us see reasonable doubt

  • Its Me Post author

    If she was suicidal when he left you should have taken the gun with him that's what a person who cares about someone does. I say he killed her

  • Marc Mcclinchy Post author

    The lawyer reminds me of jonah hill

  • Marc Mcclinchy Post author

    Lawyer looks like jonah hill and judge looks like a psycho killer: imagine him with long white hair like hed been electrocuted lol

  • Yanet Josefina T. Post author

    He assisted a euthanasia.

  • Morgan Stone Post author

    So the daughter-in-law was okay with him having a long term sexual relationship but is ASHAMED that her Mother-in-law committed suicide? This case seems hinky on both sides

  • pwog arnex Post author

    9:27 pm 197👽👾300 ft frm ol gentilly Monday

  • A B Post author

    I believe him.

  • Zhorea Francis Post author

    U would think a judge could come up with a better story than this load of crap!!!!

  • Katie Fansler Post author

    I will hate be him now he judge and now prison

  • Vanessa Sky Post author

    It’s scary that people can be convicted for crimes with so much reasonable doubt!

  • Lada Konstantinidi Post author

    How demented people have to be to associate this guy with so called Dracula .

  • Lada Konstantinidi Post author

    Why they interviewed this poor guy in English ? He can’t defend himself in language he doesn’t speak .

  • Lada Konstantinidi Post author

    It seems that when prominent or rich people convicted of a crime – losers masturbare end have specifically epic orgasm. If its you – congratulations, that all that left for you, looser.

  • Peter Williams Post author

    I don’t believe a wove says, as they say, “dead man/woman don’t lie” by his body language you can tell, LIES lies ,

  • Bella Bella Post author

    This guy looks like a reptilian in human skin. Just gives me the wrong vibes and the creeps.

  • pretty flower Post author

    His human being too despite being a judge we all have secret wars in us

  • Oma Oyelowo Post author

    If you see a person you love, suffering badly, and they plead with you for a gun, any human being,would be tempted to give it,especially if they are equally traumatized of their circumstances .

  • guysmalley Post author

    I have that pistol either the gun was rack already and she shot herself if not there is no way she could do it with a bum hand it’s a two handed operation. Imo the judge hurry up his wife demise

  • pluijm2 Post author

    I believe the judge. He understood the agony his wife was going through and helped her committing suicide, yes I can picture that. The woman had no life worth living anymore and it hurts to see you're spouse being miserable. It's no different then mixing a poisonous cocktail and put it nex to someone on the table. I understand it.

  • Gerold Gonzalez Post author

    Good show.

  • Anastasia Romanova Post author


  • Dunkin Post author

    why do i believe him

  • Anastasia Fox Post author

    Isn't he Viktor, the vampire from Underworld?

  • Rachel Van rycke Post author

    The judge looks like the creepy old man from the poltergeist movie 🧐

  • Mike Gregson Post author

    I feel for, and believe him

  • Mike Gregson Post author

    What happened to the two cases the government reopened,, who hasn’t had an affair by that age

  • Sændy Post author

    I hope the people who only judge him by the way he looks will never be in the position to decide if someone is guilty or not. Guilty or not, forensic evidence should be worth more than a "He had an affaire, so he must be a murderer"

  • Prince Localcnc Post author

    After 50 plus years of marriage you'd think he'd show sadness or tears.

  • Mawume Buatsi Post author

    I don't get it; why are there so many dumb morons on jury duty? Is it by design to get as many convictions as possible or what?

  • MrManee123 Post author

    He is a judge he has seen it all. He knows how the murder cases play out couldnt he have been smarter? 🤣

  • Guera Loca Post author

    He doesn't look too bad for 79, time was very generous to him.

  • Mandy Cote Post author

    …only the government is immune to charges of murder innocent babies!…assisted suicides!… pimping drugs!…pickpocketing citizens! Creating laws they don't abide by themselves!!! Woe to them! Hell fire has her flame on them should they not repent!!!😎💎🚘💥

  • Elle Blair Post author

    If someone is pleading to commit suicide you get them help not a gun

  • Cat LaB Post author

    One question remains. If she did commit suicide, why did he give her a loaded, cocked gun?

  • Kitty_704 IG Post author

    Count Dracula 😭😭😭

  • X X Post author

    Free Jacques Delisle

  • Cheng Cangelosi Post author

    We didn't get to know what happened to him in the end.

  • Ziggy Schumann Post author

    Judging ( no pun intended ) by his body language, Jacques Delisle is telling the truth. His eyes never flicker and look straight at the interviewer all the way through. Like he said, he made a sentimental decision for his family and paid the price. None of us have the right to judge him for providing a loaded gun for his wife of 49 yrs. who was suffering and unhappy with her health. Sure, he should be admonished and be punished, although jail time hardly fits the crime of assisted suicide, especially at their age.

  • Mark Zoobkoff Post author

    Old with rotten teeth that smokes too much is good looking? Only to the french. Lol!!

  • Mark Zoobkoff Post author

    Guardless why wouldn't you get her some mental help by some professionals? Maybe some antidepressants?

  • Mark Zoobkoff Post author

    Shoot him in the head and put him out of his misery then

  • tocc Post author

    Putting a loaded, cocked gun out in the grasp of your suicidal spouse and then leaving the house is heartless.

  • Ya Girl Post author

    I just have this feeling that he’s guilty :/ ??

  • Dreygo Headley Post author

    The host interviewer looks like yonger American actor William Defoe

  • Jared Bohlmann Post author

    what an upright man for his age

  • Al V Post author

    Are most Canadians weird ?? Just a simple question!

  • Aleia Le'Gare Post author

    He looks like he crawled out of a casket.

  • Travel Lover Post author

    omg at 2.16 when an american tries to speak french barff!!

  • Shawney W Post author

    He just wanted to be with his mistress

  • roy marius Post author

    This cynical ghoul totally did it! What an act!

  • Bryna Haspiel Post author

    he looks like a ghoul from fallout

  • sandy richard Post author

    Has a judge I think I would’ve taped her wishes at least to have a motive but I think she felt like a burden n he encouraged it at the least

  • Peter Krejci Post author

    imagine how hard it must have been to see her like that all day every day. of course he would have an affair, hes human.
    I believe him absolutely

  • Geoff Welch Post author

    Great show….

  • Dave Ryan Post author

    If I ever end up health wise like that poor lady, I would also self destruct. R.I.P. Maam. Set the judge free.

  • Tiffene Lee6 to the Post author

    I believe him and when he said she said give me a hour and he had hope that she just needed to think I believe him

  • African Family Post author

    Prosecutors routinely retain experts who lie and say whatever the governments want them to say. The experts make a living testifying for the government.

  • MsJinkerson Post author

    that type of a weapon would not leave that amount of G.S.R. unless she was shielding herself for getting shot it would indicate she would be grabbing the muzzle at the time of its discharge

  • Bob Emmet Post author

    Reminds me of the cult leader in Poltergeist 2

  • nina jabbour Post author

    Mr burns the Simpson ! But I believe him .

  • Kat B Post author

    Dude looks like a vampire

  • Sonya Rodriguez Post author

    Sad story but i can’t help waiting for him to say the word Nikel Nikel again and again when he is talking…

  • Robyn Free Post author

    Look – he had a disabled depressed wife who he had to take care of in his retirement and a long-standing mistress. He had plenty of motive and thought his position as a judge would leave him above suspicion.

  • joyaxiz Post author

    he is guilty as sin……. i am not convinced that he is innocent…… the motive is the reason……and makes the conviction….. GUILTY!!!

  • RDRAFF1 Post author

    The judge belongs in jail. He did everything but get rid of the gun. No wonder our justice system is a mess. Look at the animals running it. This guy is a cold hard animal

  • diana d Post author

    I believe him also. He had plenty money to get on with his life and take care of wife without killing her

  • I suck at Gaming Post author

    I believe him.

  • Hikku Rikku Post author

    The judge didnt lie, you can't see any deception in His body language.

  • john Churchill Post author

    Women do not usually commit suicide by violent means such as shooting themselves, especially not sick, frail women. Just sayin’

  • Michele Wood Post author

    Great series BBC.
    Thanks from San Diego!

  • Helga. Post author

    We're supposed to believe that an "infallible" judge didn't know the consequences of telling such a poor lie? And to believe that he had a burden on his hands and a woman he was having a long term affair with that this egotistical man would chose the burden?
    If anyone has ever taken on the responsibility of taking care of an incapacitated person they'd know that changing nappies and feeding an invalid is not for everyone. He was hoping he'd gotten away with it otherwise why tell the police that she got the gun herself?
    He murdered her and needs to stay where he is.

  • Sherri Post author

    14:40 but yet was laying down with someone else Haha ok then

  • Carolina Montoya Post author

    I feel sorry for the judge, I hope someone can help him.

  • Robert Caffrey Post author

    He's a Judge and Executioner , he also looks very sinister .

  • Maria Badillo Post author

    Was the judge granted a new trial? If I were one of the jurors, I’ll find him not guilty.. Because of her love for him, she wanted him to be free, and enjoy the rest of his life.

  • Jorge Pinero Post author

    The bullet wen from straight shoot to the left and exit to the back that's the most ridiculous statement I ever heard ,and they call themselves expert 🤷🏻‍♂️

  • Ziggy The Adventurer Post author

    Evidence wasn't hard enough, I can't say weather he did or didn't. To me it's innocent until proven guilty. he might get off if he has a fair trial.

  • Cedella Watson Post author

    This man looks very scary

  • Jamie Utitus Post author

    None of this explains the burn mark on her hand?

  • April Rants Post author

    He looks like the grim reaper

  • Rani Chalupsky Post author

    The fact is he didn’t want to share his money.

  • Gladys Saez Post author

    Hes not a.murderer he left the gun as she wished Hopefully someone can help him!!!!

  • Pierre Andre Post author

    As a little judge. He's a monster . Where is The Love for her children ? And , he can still , strongly lie before the camera to hurt deeply his cosmic wife . May , she forgives him , this poor human being . And , May he enjoys his new home !

  • TheMaluna Post author

    He gives me the creeps

  • Moira Gadsden Post author

    Wouldn't it have been better to take her to a euthanasia clinic or make a video of the event so there would be no doubt as to what went down. She didn't even have a suicide note. He could have had gloves on and held the gun in her hand ? just a thought!

  • Mish Elle Post author

    3:06 Worst wig EVERRRRR!!!

  • teenie beenie Post author

    arrogant creep

  • Senaida Poulsen Post author

    I belive this man is innocent
    Listen to the new judge that replaced him
    And watch him
    He his lying that new judge

  • Fatimah X Post author

    Mr Delisle good looking….ummm where

    Edit: looking like a vampire isn’t a crime I believe this man’s story…I honestly do

  • Evan Jones Post author

    I feel for the guy……..

  • iAmHealthy Post author

    If there’s ever been a case where I really just don’t have a solid opinion, this is the one.

  • sueldrsyluvsutube Post author

    It is hard to watch a person you love suffer. My mother had Alzheimer's for four years before she died. It's called the long goodbye. And it is hard to suffer from things that happen to you and your quality of life doesn't exist for you anymore. I've been in both positions. I'm not in that position now.
    This is a hard call. There were other options. Though sometimes when you are going through tough things you don't see options in their correct light. I believe she did ask him to help her. I believe this is assisted suicide. Which is still illegal. He should have consulted with a doctor for her depression. Also, he should have had someone else taking care of her at least part of the time. As her caretaker he should have gotten help for himself. The fact that he was having an extra marital affair hurt his case of course. He has to live with all of this. In jail or out.

    He should pray to God for forgiveness. In the end that's what really counts.

  • PRN PRN Post author

    I do believe he is innocent however the circumstances are different . Yes his wife killed herself and he gave her the gun and anticipated she wouldn’t do it but she did… he shouldn’t have given her the gun in 1st place. But I can understand why he didn’t say anything to defend himself in court because he knew he was wrong and also at the same time he should have been honest . This is a hard case

  • Cannamama UK Post author

    I don't think he killed her. At all. This is a huge injustice

  • Infotainment Post author

    What does he have to gain by killing her? They're both old as f* and they've been married for 50+ years. The money he would have "saved" from not getting a divorce would eventually go to their kids who support him anyway. I think he really was trying to help his wife end her own life. The judge in him though smartly left the house to get sandwiches in a store that had cameras for his alibi.

  • Kevin Potts Post author

    "Gimme a gun so I can shoot myself"
    Gives her a gun and goes out.
    Comes back and she's dead.
    "Nicole Nicole what have you done".

  • spamskanal Post author

    Hm why leaving her with a loaded gun while she is suicidal. No, no innocent thoughts with that.

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